The Plan of Chicago, Pt. 2: Trains, Traffic & Transformation

One of the largest projects that the plan broke down was transportation. The ideas were large and costly. Burnham dedicated a great part of his plan to remapping the city with a focus on how people and freight interacted.

Show notes here!

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Part two of our uh four-part series of Planet of Chicago with our special guest, Campbell the Dog. 77 Flavors, let's get it. Well, hey. Shout out to Kevin. I'm saying every we shout him out every episode.

SPEAKER_02 0:19

Well, he's so talented. That's why.

SPEAKER_01 0:20

That's a bop, man. Like, honestly. Yeah, that was abrupt. Stop. Sorry for that.

SPEAKER_02 0:26

I know. I love that. Welcome back to another episode of 77 Flavors. If you're new here, welcome. We cover Chicago history. Every week we tell you a brand new story about a cool piece of history that affects the United States as a whole and sometimes the world.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

So we're here to prove to you that Chicago's the best city. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Is what it is. That's it. That's it. That's normally I'm gonna get you with a coin right here, but I'm not gonna do that right now.

SPEAKER_02 0:50

Um if you're if you're if you're uh coming back, welcome back. This is part two of our uh Plan of Chicago series this uh this month, which is has been so fun. I I absolutely love it. If you're looking for more content, make sure you're following us on all our socials. Uh it's at 77 Flavors C H I for Chicago everywhere. Um, and you can experience more visuals, more uh of Dario talking to the camera, some pictures that we post throughout the uh week. So it's a lot of fun over there.

SPEAKER_00 1:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:25

And uh check out our website. Our website is home to the show notes that um I write every week, which you can also subscribe to and get it straight into your inbox through our Substack. So it's the same newsletter uh that is listed in the show notes. If you don't want to go to our website, you want to just get it on Monday morning into your inbox, you can do that. It's completely free. Uh, you still have to go to our website to subscribe. Yep. But uh once you s once you do that, then uh you'll get it every week and you don't have to worry about going to the website, which is beautiful, by the way. I would love for you to check it out.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

It's okay if you don't again just shout out. You you really been putting your foot in there, uh new channel.

SPEAKER_02 2:00

I'm really enjoying it a lot. I feel like it gives a nice little kind of uh insight into more of the visual aspect. I'm a very visual learner, so I I love seeing pictures, I love seeing videos, I I love seeing the tangible items. So it's been really fun for me to uh practice my writing and also I try to keep them short. I try to keep them like at max, like a five-minute read.

SPEAKER_01 2:23

I think that's a good the way you got it, you've been nailing it.

SPEAKER_02 2:26

Yeah, it's it's been it's been really fun, and uh it's giving me an opportunity to explore more Chicago uh institutions that have archives and free archives. So, and I list all of those sources. So if you you're ever listening to an episode and you're like, man, I wish they had expanded a little bit more on this one piece. I either would have done that in the show notes or I would have linked you some sources that you can then go and kind of uh engage with a little bit more and learn more.

SPEAKER_01 2:53

To be honest with you, we we as we always gonna gain knowledge, so we always gonna have sources, right? You know, but honestly, we start to be our own source. You know what I mean? Like think about it, like especially this episode.

SPEAKER_02 3:04

That's my goal with the website, is I want it to be a place where people can then go. Like once we have a bulk of these notes in there, people can go and there's a search feature on our website, so you can just type in like Plan of Chicago, and then you know, our notes would come up and you can kind of read. And uh, if you need more, you can go and read the other documents. But I kind of want it to be a home for people to then be able to use it as a resource for quick research. Um, or if you're trying to learn about a topic uh a little bit more, even if you don't listen to the podcast, which is totally fine.

SPEAKER_01 3:35

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:36

So we uh this week we did a lot of fun things. We went to Lyric Opera for Madame Butterfly, which we love lyric. Uh they invite us to some of these shows to check them out. And I really enjoyed the show. I feel like the first act was very like visually just engaging. The set was beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 3:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:54

And the second act was way a second and third act after the intermission was way more about the power of the performers.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:02

Not that the first act wasn't, but the first act was just like visually so cool.

SPEAKER_01 4:07

Yeah, yeah. It was the I mean the visuals on that were crazy. I mean, like if you photosynthesis uh warning uh before you go there into this beautiful, but but yeah, no, other than that, man, look, I thought it was um I thought it was good. The adaptation was a little different though.

SPEAKER_02 4:22

I mean it's it's a modern twist on the classic uh Puccini.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

Don't want to don't want to ruin it.

SPEAKER_02 4:28

Yeah. But yeah, it's the synopsis is available online. Oh, I guess you can. You know, so it's it's basic, it's a it's a very old story. So most people that are fans of opera already know it. But if you're not a fan and you know this is new to you, um it it's it's a really cool story. So go to their website and kind of read about it if you're interested. I don't want to spend too much time on it, but again, it's uh check it out if you like love lyric. You can get pretty cheap tickets same day, like yeah, probably like $30 or something. So it's it's a fun experience.

SPEAKER_01 4:57

You know what you realize we'd be at the opera every week. Kind of every time, yeah. Every episode so far, I feel like we always recapped it.

SPEAKER_02 5:06

It's you know what it's some show. I I always thought it was like inaccessible. You know what I mean? I always thought it was hard to understand. You know, there's I don't speak Italian, I don't speak French. Opera's really hard to understand, it's long, I don't know if I like opera. But we went the first time on if you've never been, and I I didn't know this when we first went, is that there's translation, like there's subtitles. Yeah, I didn't even know that. I didn't know that, and that makes it way less intimidating.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

You know, but but it what it is though, too, is you gotta you gotta train yourself to be able to read and then go back to looking at the visual. So because like some you gotta read fast too.

SPEAKER_02 5:39

And sometimes I don't even read. I'm like so enthralled in the story. Like you get the context, you get what's going on.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

But sometimes you need the actual content, the the literal context. But I'll tell you this ain't for the this ain't for y'all that read with y'all finger now. Okay, if you if you if you want to do only like two lines at a topic. If you want to these, why Chicago putting all the same? You might want to go ahead and have some earphones on. No, let them speak to you. You know what I mean? In English.

SPEAKER_02 6:06

No. Here's the thing it's it's repetitive because it's song. So, you know, they'll repeat the same line multiple times. You read it the first time, you get the idea. You get it, yeah. So it's it's really it's really um enjoyable. The next show we're going to is Safronia, which I'm really excited about. Chicago boy. Yes. And he's this is a very highly anticipated commission piece that Lyric commissioned um a few years ago that is, you know, debuting this month, and so in April. And if I would put that on your list if this is like your first opera, it's just it's gonna be amazing. I know it. I haven't seen it out. I don't know any of the music, but the preview that we saw last year. It's just been talked about so much that I'm really excited about it. And I don't know, I want to encourage people to not feel intimidated by opera. I feel like it's a new passion of mine, and obviously we're lucky that we get invited to shows, but um, Chicago is a great city to explore theater because you can find inexpensive, yeah, there's access to to theater, especially if you're a student, if you're young. Most schools will take you for free. Yeah. Right. So it's amazing. Love that. Um, we also did a day in Uptown. We did Explore Uptown. Check out our Instagram for a um a kind of a preview of the wine uh wine walk that's coming up at the end of April, where you basically can go throughout Uptown and eat you stop into each shop. You can shop and there's gonna be wine. Um, obviously you have to be 21 or over to purchase because there's gonna be NA options because some of you might know that I don't drink, so there was non-alcoholic options.

SPEAKER_01 7:40

Here's the best part though, aside from going to the different stops, because you're gonna be going up in some uh businesses that don't have drinks and they're gonna be having drinks for you. So you kind of like get to know the business, but also the incentive incentive is the uh drinks. But the cool thing about it if is if you have kids, right? You'll be able to drop your kids off at one of the participating day centers. They're not gonna have a drink there, though they just participating in the sense of uh they'll be able to watch your kids, but you'll be able to drop your kids off and then join the walk, which is so nice because it obviously, you know, some people don't have access to child care on such short notice. So like so expensive too.

SPEAKER_02 8:17

Right. So like you can drop your kids off and kind of do the walk and then come back and pick up your kids. It should it, I mean, we had a great time. We did like a little preview of it, so we'll post that content.

SPEAKER_01 8:28

Shit. I was sober. It's good. You know, you know, I I I'm making I'm making this claim here. I'm putting it into the universe, y'all. I'm going, I'm doing my little workout. I've been working out for like the last uh, you know, what, couple weeks? Running for about a month and a half. Not any by my any means like five days a week, probably like two, three times a week. But the last two weeks I've been working out. Yeah. And uh I'm making this commitment right now that I am not gonna have a drink for at least 30 days. And y'all know I mess with old fashions. So old fashions made first, it's up. Your time is time is a no. Uh who knows? I think it's a good boy's slimming down, you know. This this shirt ain't doing this on the podcast.

SPEAKER_02 9:11

Damn.

SPEAKER_01 9:12

Look at it. If you're watching this, uh there, you know. Um if you're not watching it, yeah, I'm puffing it out.

SPEAKER_02 9:17

Um I mean, I mean, I'm excited to get into this episode.

SPEAKER_01 9:20

I feel like But I want to talk about a hot take. I got mine. Oh, you're gonna have to take it on. I got my high take. Okay, what's your high take? High take Tuesday. Here's what here's my hot take. Tell me, y'all. I I absolutely don't like the sensitive sensitization. Sensationalization. I don't like the sensationalization of the Chicago accent. That get on my goddamn nerves, y'all. Chicago, French that's a that's a niche group of people here in Chicago. That's not the Chicago accent. That's one of the Chicago accents. Yeah. The longest time I've I've always wanted to say this, but it feels good to get it off my chest.

SPEAKER_02 10:04

I'm happy for you. You know, you know what's funny is when I first moved here, I couldn't hear the different accents. No, I mean, I meant to the US. Okay. I didn't know like the only accent that stood out to me was a southern accent. That was it. I couldn't tell the difference between like New Yorkers and now they got accent. Now I can tell the difference because I've We got accent too, though. Right. We do. You like Chicagoans or?

SPEAKER_01 10:26

Yeah, well I'm just saying, as Chicago as a whole, we have For sure. You're we gotta but here that goes to my point.

SPEAKER_02 10:34

That goes to my point.

SPEAKER_01 10:34

It's like, you know, they the the Chicago accent got sensationalized because of uh SNL skit and all the the super fans and the Swarskis and all those people made it a mainstream thing, so that's what people come out of from out of town.

SPEAKER_02 10:50

It's the same as like a New York accent. Like New York most New Yorkans don't workers don't have that.

SPEAKER_01 10:56

But they have a broader, it is a little bit more blanket. That accent is a little bit more blanket. Chicago really don't have that that ain't a lot of people, if I'm just being honest with you. It ain't a lot of people. Because I I would argue black folks got a different. When I was growing up, I didn't hear that Chicago accent that they made up. Right. I mean, it ain't make it up, but that that is that is what it is. That's considered like the mainstream. Because there's there's people that do it, and I can tell you where they go. You go down Pulaski, I ain't they're doing it down there. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 11:26

I think it's the inter the interesting idea is like what is mainstream and like what is uh the actual, you know what I mean? Like things that enter into the mainstream are always fascinating to me.

SPEAKER_01 11:37

You know what it is? It's it's when people say the French room, that one. I the French room. I ain't never heard that. Right. Like, and I'm I'm born and raised again. It's a lot of people. My mama used to say, go sit in the front room.

unknown 11:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:49

We in in the front room, now that's but French room, we ain't never. Y'all, yeah, we ain't never. I ain't never, I ain't never.

SPEAKER_02 11:57

But I I have no input because I didn't I didn't grow up here, so I don't know. They just make me Chicago. You know what's funny is my cousin speaks that way. He's half Arab, half half Chicago. No, no, no, no. He's he grew up here. He grew up on the white south side of Chicago.

SPEAKER_00 12:14

Okay, well.

SPEAKER_02 12:15

And that's how he that's he has that accent. His his mom was just getting my nerves when they're Irish.

SPEAKER_01 12:21

I guess what it is when they say that's I guess and win. Because you know, out of towners be pulling up to me, be like, do you say Chicago? Do you French from I'm black? I don't say none of that. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 12:32

That's that is a hot take, don't you?

SPEAKER_01 12:34

That's a that's a hot take. That's a hot take. I think black Chicago.

SPEAKER_02 12:37

I think that's that's hotter than my I hate Oreos take.

SPEAKER_01 12:40

Black Chicago, it is, because I know a lot of people from Chicago are gonna be like, you know, that's a Chicago, yeah, whatever. Whatever. You wanna get I want to get into the

Main Topic

SPEAKER_01 12:50

let's lock in. Yeah, y'all. So uh we continue in the story of uh this the plan of Chicago, which was formulated in 1909. We left uh thought left off at the gardens and how they started that, right? So, in short, go back, look at that. But yeah, the the gardens were the means to keep the people happy, safe, healthy, and to beautify the city, right?

SPEAKER_02 13:22

But go ahead. I well, I uh before I kind of want to emphasize a piece that we did talk about last time, but I just want to reiterate it is that this plan was made without the majority of the population in mind. Like they didn't take into consideration like like there was no like community voting or like no one had an input. It was like these people had money and this is what they thought was best. And we're gonna get into it when we talk about how they implemented or how they attempted to implement some of this stuff. Um, what when it came to like moving people around and like what I mean still happens, like eventually when we talk about like eminent domain and stuff like that, it's still still true. Like it's uh it's what uh you know, a wealthy group of people thought was the right thing to do, which I'm is really fascinating. I don't I won't say that like everything they did was wrong or everything they did was right, it was just an interesting way to approach a growing city, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 14:16

Yeah, so so today we're talking about the transportation aspect of it, yeah, right. Uh and the concept for this change is uh the city was populated, yeah. Trains were running the town, uh, and you needed we needed to get around. People needed to get around, and they need to do it conjointly, right? We needed to work together hand in hand. Yeah, you got these new parks that you're trying to uh you know propose. How is that gonna work with what we already have going on? Like just train tracks laid everywhere. And uh aside from from that, the trains uh didn't have proper terminals and thousands of trains oftentimes just set on tracks, yeah, just set still, waiting to be used and offloaded and things like that.

SPEAKER_00 14:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:59

So uh this came about, this brought about the Central Depot idea where Chicago, we talk about a civic center. Chicago was gonna have a depot for the trains. Yep. So they can go somewhere, right? And now here's here's the uh a number, direct quote from uh the book here, which by the way, we still talk about the plan of Chicago and um by the commercial club. By the commercial club. So that's what I'm quoting here. Uh 95% of Chicago's freight traffic in or out in and out of the city was done by railroad. And 90 and 5% was by water. So you think about it, everything that's including what Chicago is shipping out and what people are bringing in to the city. Yep, you know, from all over the country.

SPEAKER_02 15:49

That's not surprising.

SPEAKER_01 15:50

It's not surprising. No, this shit's still like that. I mean, not high, not high as high, but very high numbers, right? Um, and according to the analysts, it wasn't going to change in the future. There, that was also a direct quote. They were like, we don't see this changing. Right. Because again, they understood Chicago's position of power.

SPEAKER_02 16:06

Yeah. Also, like planes didn't exist.

SPEAKER_01 16:08

Right. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, you know what I mean? Like, I think what did uh the the the the moon happened? The moon went was in '63. Was like was 63, 67, or something like that. The moon landing. And and that was what what 40 years after the first plane, the Wright brothers took off, or something like that? Yeah. I I know I got the numbers wrong, but I know the the moon landing had been.

SPEAKER_02 16:34

We like we like two, three decades. You know, uh like a commercial flight didn't take off until way later.

SPEAKER_01 16:39

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Now the notion was to put both the trains and the boat freight in one area, right? Right, so that they could centralize. And and they referred to this. It's very interesting. Um, how they spoke in, you know, it's tangent here. This book, they were very passionate about what they believe Chicago. Daniel Burnham had them boys in their office, was like, yo, we believe in this shit. You know what I'm saying? Like, this is what we know. They did some research. They did, they it was a lot of uh uh thought process, but it was a lot of hope in there too. Yeah, banking on stuff because you didn't have super scientific numbers. It was just the we see what they are doing in other countries, we see what they've done, we're about to put all that together, and we're about to make this new thing that the world has never seen.

SPEAKER_00 17:25

Right.

SPEAKER_01 17:26

That's so that's where I'm coming from. It's a little bit lofty. Not a lot of it locked because a lot of it didn't happen. Yeah, so so um, but but yeah, I just want to preface that because they use the term a center of gravity because and that makes sense, and they didn't break it down, but we could break it down. The center of gravity is where the you are the most centered, and all your heavy parts is imbalance with the lightweight parts. It makes sense. Chicago was top heavy with with people and then top heavy with trains compared to boats and things like that. So uh yeah, it's interesting. I I put that in my little red here because I was like, center of gravity is something I've never heard. Yeah. Um, and this they this is where they decided what's gonna be built around the city.

SPEAKER_02 18:10

Yeah. Uh, I think the most interesting part while I was looking into this was kind of like what are the three main things that he was trying to solve with this plan. Um, and it was his main focus was he kind of almost obsessively wanted to make the Chicago's business area just huge. Like he wanted the loop to be just a monumental thing. I think one uh one of the articles I read was talking about um that he w he expect he uh projected that one at 1.1 million people would work uh outside of the like in within within the loop, yeah. Which uh I think uh the maximum at any point was like 400,000, which I mean is still like a great number of people, but a million people to work within the loop is crazy. They also wanted to uh increase transit routes above and below ground. So we'll I'm sure you'll get into that in a little bit. And then um they yeah, I uh the the last piece was having a million employees in the business district, which is kind of crazy. And it was um it was a lot of like the transit, the transit rails kind of looked like a tangled web. There's a picture that I will include in in my notes that was just baffling how these trains worked. How did how didn't they all just ram into each other at all times? The question so which I'm sure they did. I I feel like that is one of the the main you know problems that they wanted to solve is like it was inefficient, it wasn't working properly, Chicago grew too fast.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

Man, I leop. Uh so there's a lot of things I didn't write down in this. And if you are listening, if you are watching, um, I would suggest go get this book because there's so many things that I could write down, but I'm trying to keep this podcast palatable, right? Yeah um but I I would just encourage you to, if you care enough, go get the book, read what is in this book because to your point, they were they basically said this the train system, not just here in Chicago, right, but New York, Boston, all these other places, just trash, absolutely trash. Because I think almost verbatim, they put in here, and I can't find it right now, but they put in here and they said Chicago just laid shit down. Right. We we just laid stuff down. That's true. It's true, it's true. Chicago went in after it burned down. We just laid stuff down because we have to we it was I think you mentioned a couple episodes. We just wanted to rebuild. Yeah, I mean, like you just wanted to get things back up and running.

SPEAKER_02 20:36

No real no real plan.

SPEAKER_01 20:37

No plan. So uh in in my notes, I did write down uh there was there's two diagrams because along with this central depot, they showed sketches of what that their plan was, right? The plan was to have uh uh a dock system, right? Uh and the docks were centered around the boats, even though they had 5%. But if you can have the boats that were gonna come, since not a lot of them, you put the boats in one place, that's where the trains should go. Yeah. Trains are gonna go centralized to that. What they're gonna do is, and it's this is all freight, y'all. Freights, goods, commodities, things like that. These are not people. Um, they are going to go right where the boats are ready to be loaded up and or offloaded, and then move out from the city from there. Same thing with the boats. The boats were gonna be docked, loaded, unloaded, whatever the case was, and then keep on going. And it's cool because they show that. The first one, very interesting to me. The first dock, and I say first because there's two, was at the mouth of the Chicago River. Right. So right now, where our docks are, um, the the locks, I should say, where the river opens up. The gate, if you've ever been on the architectural tour, if you've been walking down it, you've seen what we're talking about. It opens up into the harbor, uh, Arbor Harbor and to Lake Michigan. Yes. That's where they wanted the uh the the dock to be for the trains. Now we Continue. This is where they also wanted to put the big warehouses. So all the major warehouses, they call them uh the big warehouses, what they said were proposed to be here, and that that congestion could be centralized. Yeah. That congestion. Right. So you think about things like full to market.

SPEAKER_02 22:18

Yeah.

unknown 22:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:20

I mean uh uh mark uh the mark.

SPEAKER_02 22:23

Yeah. They they they did talk a lot about in other parts of the plan about how uh certain areas needed to be kind of like eliminated, and it was a lot of those like uh markets of think of like where uh canal and Roosevelt specifically, because that was one of the sites of the proposed uh which later became Union Station at Jackson and Canal, but they wanted it at Roosevelt and Canal because they thought that that would be the perfect spot for uh the station to be. And they had a they got a lot of pushback. I mean, it eventually went up, but they didn't want uh, you know, the city the city didn't really want to put a station there. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

Look, y'all, I don't I love Chicago. This shit is just this is fascinating because like all the things that we say, and I'm glad you interjected where you do what you when you're doing, because like I want y'all to be thinking about this too, because we name it, we're gonna be naming streets and things like this. I'm coming up real soon, naming some streets. And I want you to think about what I'm saying now, and I should probably preface this. What I'm saying right now is according to the 1909 plan, right? I understand where streets are right now because it's gonna get real tricky. You're gonna be like, what? And I'm not misspeaking, I'm just reading directly from the book, okay? Okay. I'm glad you said that. Because uh the next one was actually in uh the next one of these docks was supposed to be by the Calumet River. And they got a diagram. I put it down here, page 65. It's the uh diagram, uh, what is that? 50, 60, 70, 72. Diagram 72. Uh, and it shows the uh depoyed uh Calumet River. Now, both of these were gonna be the harbors that they were gonna be uh connected underground. Right. Underground through the water.

SPEAKER_02 24:06

That's a big part of the plan.

SPEAKER_01 24:07

That's a big part of the plan. But this think about this, this is underground through the water, right, and then part partially land. Uh, and this whole total plan was gonna consist of four different parts: the freight center, which the freight center was gonna be a centralized place, uh, the the two harbors and the connecting system, right? Uh and the connecting system, the uh the train system, underground or above ground, played a big role here, right? Uh, and this kind of leads us to the streets.

SPEAKER_02 24:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:37

Now, when we talk about streets, we we kind of game plan before the episode, we we talking, we're not gonna go into the streets, how they re-initiate the grid, the grid system, yeah, just how they envision the streets actually look.

SPEAKER_02 24:50

And in terms of in terms of like along the theme of transportation, right? Yeah, more of that than anything. Um, one of the cool things that I found while we were doing research is the landmark designation for the Chicago and Northwestern Terminal, uh, which was really fascinating because it was built by uh Charles Sumner Frost and Alfred uh Granger. And the this duo actually designed like 80 rail rail-specific buildings, rail stations across the country.

SPEAKER_00 25:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:22

Uh more than 80, I feel like at some point. So they were the architect uh duo that designed uh that northwest terminal complex. And what's really interesting about that one is it's one of the few that buildings that are left uh of that like original early days of the plan of what the rail systems were going to look like. It was built in the uh style that we talked about last time, which is the uh Bo Art style. Uh and it was, you know, obviously Chicago has its own style of architecture, school of architecture. And we have uh so there's not a lot of that. So one of the arguments of like why do why do you landmark this building is that it was one of the first uh of its style in Chicago. It also looks like a Roman aqueduct, which is really fascinating and aligned with the plan. Yeah. Um, because you know the masonry was that's that's what they wanted. Uh other buildings that Frost and Granger designed were the uh Navy Pier, Low House, and Chicago Club.

SPEAKER_01 26:24

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:25

Which I completely forgot that.

SPEAKER_01 26:26

Navy Pier, that's where I know the name from. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think we probably talked about Chicago Club too, I to be honest with you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:32

Um, but one cool thing is like right ahead of this plan in 1906, the railroad carried 45,000 passengers a day and 24 million people a year. Isn't that insane?

SPEAKER_01 26:45

It you know, we I think we talked about these numbers uh when we did the railroad actually.

SPEAKER_02 26:50

It's just so interesting to read uh to read it again. Uh there was an it's a 1906 article from the Tribune that announced the building of this Chicago and North uh Western Terminal. This is 1906, so this is even before they were like, let's organize this a little bit more. Um, and it was they they picked this location specifically because it was west of the river.

SPEAKER_00 27:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:11

And they were like, oh, we can avoid the bridges going up and down, delaying the trains, which is why this whole plan came about. And it was such a big, not the reason the plan came about, but why transport was such a big part of the plan was because it was, you know, the you know, the bridges were causing huge delays. Obviously, nothing was organized, the tracks weren't were overlapping, but um, it was interesting. Just like a few years ahead before, it was it was still a big issue.

SPEAKER_01 27:38

Still a big issue. Before we move on to the streets, real quick, it's one part I do want to uh think want you to think about too. It's like we talked about last episode, part one, about how they wanted Chicago to be the largest city in the world. Think about the second depot was gonna be down in uh Calume. Yeah, ended by the Calume River. I mean, that's just wild. It's just wild at how big they wanted Chicago to be. They really thought that that land was gonna be Chicago.

SPEAKER_00 27:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:59

Um now to the streets. Here's something that uh we need we when you put it in perspective of where their mind was at, and you just hit on that about the people moving, right? Uh goods brought uh brought into the city happened in the afternoon and at night.

SPEAKER_00 28:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:15

So when when you think about like restaurants and any business that had anything delivered to them, that happened uh in the afternoon and at night. Imagine if that happened now, where deliveries were happening in rush hour through the night. Okay. I just ain't no way, bro.

SPEAKER_02 28:34

And I think like wheat, uh, you had like cattle, all that kind of stuff was is what was being delivered.

SPEAKER_01 28:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:41

Cows mowing.

SPEAKER_01 28:42

Yeah, right, right. They and that's probably where the bridge broke down.

SPEAKER_02 28:44

Anyway, I mean it is when the rest street broke.

SPEAKER_01 28:46

Yeah, right. We know we know that for a fact. Yeah. Uh they thought that this this could be done at bet better at night. So what they said, not only can it be done better at night, but true through trolley, not farmers bringing stuff into the city on their little car, they buggies or whatever. No, trolley and elevated lines.

SPEAKER_00 29:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:04

So they were thinking doing this from 1 a.m. to 7 in the morning. They thought it would save wear and tear. And by they, I'm talking about commercial club people that in this book here. Um, so that's that was their thinking. The setup of this, okay. Chicago streets were proposed to be circuits and radial, y'all. So I'm sure we all heard, I think I mentioned Radio? Yes, what does that mean? Around around around the circle. Uh-oh. So I I mentioned Paris. You're right. That's the image that I saw a lot as a kid, and what a lot of people talk about. But when you read this plan, no, that's true. They wanted it as a civ city, civic center, and then go around um that you know, around that center and a circle. Which the civic center also never happened. I mean, hold on. So the first, and they did them in circuits, okay? So the way the they didn't do them in circuits, but the the plan was to put them in these what's called circuits. And if you think about uh a circuit course, what happens with a circuit course? It goes right in a circle, right? Um, and so they were calling it a circle, uh circus. Circus, they were calling it a circuit. The first main circuit was uh Michigan Avenue to the east, Canal Street to the west, 16th Street to the south, and Kinsey to the north. Interesting. Yeah, very interesting. Kinse to the north. Now, this was the main circuit, like I said. This circuit was for um, you know, the the trains and trains, uh, cars, everything. And the the thought was this was gonna be centered around the civic center, which the civic center to them, what they wanted the civic center of Chicago to be, was Halsted and Congress, y'all.

SPEAKER_00 30:55

Right.

SPEAKER_01 30:56

And if you are familiar with where that is, obviously, Greek town. If you if you don't know, that's Greek town. But that's also the Jane Byrne Exchange.

SPEAKER_02 31:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:05

Right there is where they thought the civic center would be.

SPEAKER_02 31:09

Well, they thought that like the you know, the city would expand to, yeah, and like the main business district could be bigger.

SPEAKER_01 31:16

Yeah, and so for them, the main post office was supposed to be right there. All the main happenings was supposed to be.

SPEAKER_02 31:23

Which it could have extended, I mean it could have extended. Uh, I guess everything stayed closer to the group.

SPEAKER_01 31:28

You know, I'm sure as we get to part four is when we're gonna four where we're gonna talk about how it fell apart. Yeah, yeah. How this all fell apart where we are today. Yeah, you know, so um, so yeah, the subway is supposed to follow that same circuit, right? Now, there were there were multiple circuits, and the way this was supposed to be, and this is the radio part of it, I'm giving hand visualizations visualizations. I these these zations? I kicked in my hands this episode.

SPEAKER_02 31:53

Yeah, I don't know. What is going on?

SPEAKER_01 31:55

Sensationalized?

SPEAKER_02 31:56

Zation.

SPEAKER_01 31:57

Zation? Sensationalization? That don't sound right. That doesn't sound like a word. It don't sound like a word. Sensalizing sensation sensationalizing sensationalizing. There it is. That's the one. Anyway, we got there eventually. We got there eventually. So, what there, what they thought, halted in Congress, Civic Center.

SPEAKER_00 32:13

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 32:14

First little civic center circle circuit was right according to the map here, right? It looked like it was just underneath that. And that's where the Michigan Avenue circuit was, right? That's gonna be like the main businessy area where all the important stuff happens. And then from there, they can have their own circuit where they can branch out to the city so that all that congestion doesn't go out to the other circuits. Now, the other circuit uh was meant for handling some freight and passengers. So now as you get out, the circle expands. Now you got more. This is for freight that need to go to businesses or people, and people can ride these. Now, now the the inner circle, the inner circuit, which was the the main one also, was also like I say post office, but that was life produce, commodities, so that it can like be dispersed. Water, sewer, power, tell all that stuff was uh the center. Now the second boulevard circuit, which was the they considered this the way I read it, was the it's literally the second boulevard circuit, but it was uh kind of like the main business area. Was kind of like a backup plan for in case that main circuit just got overran. And that consisted of Michigan Avenue to the east, 22nd Street to the uh south, Ashland to the west, uh, and uh Chicago Avenue to the north. So pretty damn massive.

SPEAKER_00 33:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:46

It's a pretty massive second circuit in case you needed to kind of get around the city, deliver stuff, and and keep away the congestion. Um, now they thought this was gonna result in cleanliness and everything. Yeah, uh, and they did their research on uh based off of Vienna. I wrote Vienna down here, uh, Vienna, Austria. And so in these circuits, they were like, we're gonna use a lot of viaducts. You know, we're gonna use a lot of viaducts, a lot of underpassages. We've been to Vienna. Uh they got a lot of bridges and shit that you can walk over and like to get to different parts of the uh town. Granted, we stayed on one park, but we walked pretty far over our park. So it's kind of cool that we were in Vienna, and and that's where the plan of Chicago, one of the concepts. And in these viaducts were the transportations that Sarah was talking about, right? Um, you about how where Union Station was supposed to be here is considered 12th Street. And fun fact, y'all, reading this.

SPEAKER_02 34:42

Yeah. I mean, 12th Street wasn't renamed until right.

SPEAKER_01 34:45

12th Street was they call it the great, the grand 12th Street. Yeah, that was massive. That's now Roosevelt.

SPEAKER_02 34:52

Right.

SPEAKER_01 34:52

That's Roosevelt.

SPEAKER_02 34:53

Which is still a massive stuff.

SPEAKER_01 34:54

It's still massive. And reading the plan of how they looked at Roosevelt, and I'm gonna uh I'm gonna I'm gonna flip through here because these last few notes I didn't write down because I just wanted to read it. It's just so much to write down. Um the way they thought about uh 12th Street, 12th Street, Roosevelt, was kind of like the main start of where their circuit and circle was, right? Um and and it was supposed to go to Canal, right? Canal Street, and then from there it was gonna make its way to the city center, Host it, and uh uh Congress, which you know is only probably like a five-minute drive from Roosevelt Canal. Now, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, depending on day, time of day.

SPEAKER_02 35:39

And depending on mode of transit.

SPEAKER_01 35:40

Yeah, right. You know, it could take a little while, but like, so you're gonna cut back up north there to go to the city center. This is how big they were, and I I don't know if I'm stretching this or not, y'all. I don't know if I'm stretching this, but I think I realize, you know, the question of is it L? What does L stand for? Elevated loop? What it what does it stand for? That's always a debate. I'm gonna read you this, right? And this is referring to 12th Street and how they envision this looking, right?

SPEAKER_00 36:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 36:10

First, to carry the elevated loop along the side and east of the west side passenger system, along the side and south of the 12th street passenger system, thence they use weird words, thence alley, uh, thence over to the alley L at present. Hmm. Around by the lake, around by Lake Street and across to the West Passenger Station, forming a complete overhead circuit. The loop. The loop. The loop. Like they they plan the loop to be not where we think it is now, but right where they said it. Second, there should be a surface, uh, second, there should be a surface streetcar circuit following the same route with minor circuits within it. That's crazy, y'all. Third, there should be an underground streetcar system following substantially the same route at first mentioned above, but extending under the main branch of the river running east and west or at Michigan Street. That's wild. That's that's wild to hear them basically describe Wacker, the loop, and uh the subway, the uh the Jacks uh the red line. Yeah. The red line slash blue line. That look that area right there. Yep. That's crazy. And and and we know for a fact that we got the pedway system because of this. Right around a few decades later, right? We were we we did the episode on how the pedway system was a circumstance if they were about to get rid of the L. Right. So here we are with the plan in Chicago where they like, we're gonna build the L, you know, the loop. The plan we talked about, they were like, man, we're gonna tear that shit down and use the underground system. I can't wait till we get to the where this shit fell apart. I know. You know what I mean? Like, because like to me, reading this, I don't know about you, get your thoughts on it. Was this not was this gonna work? You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 38:08

Like, was this I think it was uh very ambitious and very, very, very expensive. Um yeah, I mean, even like when we talk about the widening of the streets, especially especially, you know, they widened Roosevelt, and it was it took years to complete that because it was like not until the after the world war that they that wasn't done until after the world war, uh, especially the bridge, because like there was delays and stuff, but they did finish it, they did widen Roosevelt. Uh, and like when you they widened Michigan Avenue and created like the double decker situation where cars go on the bottom or freight goes on the bottom, you know, people go on top. They the city had to purchase 51 properties on the east side of Michigan Avenue and um south of the bridge and west of what was at the time Pine Street before it was renamed to Michigan Avenue. And so it was very expensive to just do these little bits and pieces of changing. Yeah, the even when they built Union Station, yeah, they had to straighten the south uh branch of the river.

SPEAKER_01 39:14

Yeah, right. Which is crazy, like what? Yeah, they had they right that you you brought that. They had to straighten that part up. Like it's like, hey, look, and honestly, Roosevelt is the way it is. Uh, and I mean there's some numbers in here. They they actually go over the the technical numbers of where um how wide Roosevelt was supposed to be, 150 feet wide at one point, at its widest, 80 feet wide at the uh at another point. Um it's just yeah, I don't know, man. Like seeing this plan, they you could have not imagined Chicago would have boomed.

SPEAKER_02 39:48

It would have had to be empty for it to be like built this way.

SPEAKER_01 39:52

And and you had to do it fast. Here's a quote, right? Again from the book. We cannot act too promptly in regard to creating and mitigating uh maintaining perfect street circulation, car circulation, an extension of the area for the heart of Chicago. Yeah. They were like, bro, this is imperative.

SPEAKER_02 40:08

Right, which is which is fair because at some point uh it was um what I wrote something down here that was kind of fascinating because people could only access the um uh the trains through one street, which is through the bridge. Uh let me let me find find that little note because I I wasn't uh ready to get to it.

SPEAKER_01 40:31

You're right. But that's where they that's where they came up with the idea of um they wanted to have terminals where people can on and off uh buy these viaducts.

SPEAKER_02 40:41

Yeah. So uh it's the it's part of the Chicago and you know, after the Chicago Northwestern Terminal, the access it you were able to access it from five streets instead of just Swell Street and the bridge, which was, you know, kind of really difficult to access. Um I don't know, it was it was fascinating fascinating. I I feel like even when they started building the bridges and um, you know, on Michigan Avenue, that was that was uh monumental because now this bridge could carry seven times more traffic than Rush Street Bridge, which collapsed like five times.

SPEAKER_01 41:16

And here's the here's the crazy thing too is they mentioned in the book, they they talk about how they wanted the um the the type of the type of bridge that Chicago has. Um and obviously we know Canal Street was that first bridge uh that went up. But now, reading the plan, you know why it was the first one. It had to get to the center. Yeah. Heart of Chicago. Right. It had to get to the heart. So that's why they made that the first one. Yeah. That's to me, my mind was blown putting all this together. Like, damn, that's why we have, that's why Roosevelt is the way it is. That's why Roosevelt got the train station right there. That's why Roosevelt got um uh uh, you know, it kind of shrinks up right there by uh Michigan Avenue. It says that in a book. Because if you ever go to that little, that lockjaw right there on Michigan Avenue, and it's wider now, but like, man, it's just crazy to see. That's how they were thinking. And some of the plan was gone.

SPEAKER_02 42:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:13

But most of it some of it was accomplished. It was, but you know, and the reason why the parts that I feel like the parts that were accomplished were the parts that were uh already in place in Chicago that they could easily like get to and do, like that was already there. So they were like, we ain't gotta build nothing up. Right. We could just go ahead and put that.

SPEAKER_02 42:32

But it was still very expensive and time consuming. Yeah, you know, like widening the street was not easy. I think, uh, not I think, I know that they widened western uh at you know, 26 miles of western was widened and 20 miles of Ashland. Um, Sheridan Road was you know made bigger, it was enlarged. And uh they in the plan, Sheridan, they wanted it to become a highway that goes to Milwaukee. Yeah, that never happened, obviously. But it was still like made larger than than uh what it was at the time. So even like Wacker, Wacker, uh what's funny, not funny, kind of not funny, haha, funny, sad, uh, is that Wa Charles Wacker couldn't make it to the opening of Wacker because he was sick. Right. That's so sad. Ain't that crazy? Yeah, yeah. Uh, but and that didn't start until like the 20s, 1924, and it wasn't completed until 1926. So 15 years, 15 and 16 years after the uh the plan. Um, I don't know. It was just it was fascinating how these like they had they had such big plans for um It's good questions.

SPEAKER_01 43:38

It goes it's good questions to ask because like, you know, and I'm glad we're asking these questions as we go on along with this book too, because it's like, well, now we know streets is next. We're talking about streets next episode, but like this was the foundation that they thought. And in their mind, they had assuredness that this is gonna work. Yeah, and they kept selling it to the we need to do this, we need to separate the cars. And the people. We need to have a separate transit system. We need to get all them trains out of Chicago so that we can build up our streets how we want it to be. If this plan had actually worked, Chicago might have been the biggest, most it's beautiful. You know, to us it is. But it might have been objectively the wildest city ever created.

SPEAKER_02 44:22

And here's the thing maybe in in the last episode, we'll touch a little bit on like the next two sets or three sets of plans that came after this one. Because 1909 wasn't the last plan. No, no for Chicago. It's not like the city was like, oh, we're done. Like obviously there's more. There's a 2045 plan that's in place right now. So we'll we'll touch a little bit. We'll touch a little bit on um I said 1945. No, no, no. I said oh 2045. Uh we'll touch a little bit more on those to see like what are some things from 1909 that are still in these plans? What was in 1965 that's still taken from 1909? Are there things that we are missing from that plan that should be uh in the future?

SPEAKER_01 45:00

But I can't wait to go uh over why this shit broke down. Yeah, I cannot wait.

SPEAKER_02 45:14

Um, I think this for this episode, it's uh we you know we've talked about where we were 10 years before, where we were 10 years after uh last episode. So um, but in terms of transit, just to add a little bit to that, obviously, you know, 1890 was the streetcars, uh, and then the elevated line uh started around 1895. So we're minimal, you know, we ex we talked a lot about where we were before this plan happened. So I I don't want to reiterate what we just said, but that's kind of kind of where we were. Uh in terms of things that you can read uh to learn a little bit more. Again, I'm still like petitioning for people to uh for someone for HBO to uh make a show about Chicago's uh 1871 to 1930. That's my that's my dream in life.

SPEAKER_01 46:04

That's show theory.

SPEAKER_02 46:05

If I ever become a millionaire, that will be uh what I will do with my money.

SPEAKER_01 46:08

Run it up.

SPEAKER_02 46:09

Um but if you want to learn more, non obviously nonfiction books, uh there's uh an interesting illustrated history book called Chicago Transit. And uh just a little blurb from what it is. It's combining nostalgia and historical detail. David Young tells the colorful story of transportation in Chicago from the plank roads of 1850 to the streetcar uh of the 1920s to the articulated bus of the 1990s, illustrated with more than 90 photographs, maps, and Chicago Transit reveals the political shenanigans, business deals, and technological changes behind the transportation system that made Chicago the city that works. Um and then there's the L by Bruce uh Moffitt, which is the development of Chicago's rapid transit system, uh building Chicago Subway by David Sadowski. Uh take a trip underground and see how Chicago's I will spirit overcame challenges and persevered to help with the successful building of the subway. Uh weird that it's called subway, but we don't call them subway.

SPEAKER_01 47:07

Yeah, they were making it. They were.

SPEAKER_02 47:09

Uh yeah. No, we don't really have a subway per se. Um but yeah, those three books, and then uh I will link in the show notes. There's a uh nice collection that the Chicago Public Library has put together about Chicago history in general. Um, so I I will list that in there if you're interested in kind of uh one of the librarians uh made a made a collection that's has some really cool books in there. So I'll I'll list that for you. Uh and then if you're looking for episodes to learn more, uh check the links and we'll have the Burnham episode and the railway episode linked up to the same same ones as last week. Uh just because we're kind of in the same topics here.

SPEAKER_01 47:49

I'm very curious now, future episode for us to kind of go over revisit some things. I don't know what that looks like right now.

SPEAKER_02 47:58

I kind of want to do like street specific episodes. Like I want to learn the history of Roosevelt. You know what I mean? Like, just let's do one on that.

SPEAKER_01 48:06

Well, I'll be like, what I was thinking because like you we've been down in the tunnels.

SPEAKER_02 48:10

Right.

SPEAKER_01 48:10

You know what I mean? Like, and and I know Chicago got tunnels, and like they still they show it every now and then on you can find the tunnels, you know, somebody went down there. Uh, but now knowing that they were super functioning, yeah, like and like what the plan was and like how they started, like, who knows what that shit was like. Was that part? That was part of it for sure. Yeah, because they mentioned a lot of times all the stuff that's there already. Right. We got stuff that's there already. Let's just use that. But then you think about things like the merchandise mart. Yeah. When we did the street names, we we did uh you know, when we were by merchandise mart, we did how that's that was one of the ways that trains came through. You know what I'm saying? It's like, man, like now I want to go back. Reading through this plan is is like really changing my thought process on like how Chicago came to be. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, because like you we know this stuff didn't last, you know what I mean? Like, but what did they start and how did they fall apart? Yeah, like like more in detail. Like, we know how things kind of on a surface level, we talk about disinvestment to different places and corruption and all we know that kind of stuff, but like why didn't you continue with the doc? You know, like what was the conversation?

SPEAKER_02 49:17

What who got time to excuse me, time to dig in into the archives and uh find these letters where people were like nope. Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Like, I'm sure they want to see what city council members were like, absolutely we're not doing that, right?

SPEAKER_01 49:31

You know what I'm saying? Like, what is what is that, man? Like, that's that's crazy. Like, that's wild.

SPEAKER_02 49:35

Uh speaking of city council, if you're listening to this episode uh in time, April 8th, Dario and I will be on a panel with uh former mayor Lightfoot uh talking about some of the uh archives of the city pay uh city um um council council that have recently only recently become available to the public. So uh we're gonna be discussing that. It's free. You can sign up and come uh it's sold out.

SPEAKER_01 49:59

Oh it's sold out. I just I just remembered the post. It just it sold out.

SPEAKER_02 50:03

Oh well uh stay stay uh locked in for uh future ones.

SPEAKER_01 50:10

Uh yeah. That's all. Um before we get out of here, did you hear they were digging up for new buildings over in uh Streeterville and they found boats that were used to right in the area where George Streeter planted his boat, and we know he built up the area just imminent he said this mine. Um basically yeah, and and they found they dug up deep enough and they found boats. One dude was like, bro, it looked like a boat. Is the way this is curving? This look like a boat, because you know that's all landfill right now. Yeah, they dug it up and they were like, bro, this is a boat. Do we know? Do we know what year is it dated? Uh so they're saying right around the 1890, 1880, all that the area. Interesting. Because they found, I think, bottles and other stuff. Because you know, all that shit was just dumb. You know, interesting. Crazy. Fascinating. That's fascinating.

SPEAKER_02 51:08

All right. Well, um, thank you so much for listening and staying with us for another episode. If you enjoyed this one, please send it to someone you love. If you did not, that's all right. Come back next week. We'll do a better part three of uh The Plan of Chicago. We're excited to wrap this up. So we we'll have one more part four, but yeah, you know, yeah. Getting closer. You're halfway through. Getting closer to the end. Uh, we'll see you then. Peace.